Ep. 10 Musical Embodiments of Weight, Sound, and Time with Josh Ryan

 

Josh Ryan

Josh Ryan is Department Chair and Professor of Percussion at Baldwin Wallace University and a well-known clinician within the World Music Drumming workshops. Known for the depth of his knowledge, his musicianship, and the approachableness of his presence, he is well-loved by World Music Drumming participants all-over. Our conversation today is an exploration of the music of Africa-West, the importance of musical embodiment, and the rebalancing of visual-focused musicianship with aural, listening-centered and embodied traditions.

Keywords: West African Drumming, World Music Drumming, Embodiment, Afro-centric Traditions, African Diasporas, Music Theory, Dualism

Josh Ryan is Department Chair and Professor of Percussion at Baldwin Wallace University, where he teaches percussion. Ryan has studied Afro-centric music-making within Ghanaian, Cuban, and other West African and Caribbean traditions. He is the co-founder of the Africa -> West Percussion trio, a professional percussion ensemble that recently released its fourth CD, Loud Fossil, as well as a recording with world renown percussionist and singer Valerie Naranjo in 2017. Josh is also a well-known clinician within the World Music Drumming workshops across the country. Known for the depth of his knowledge, his musicianship, and the approachableness of his presence, he is well-loved by World Music Drumming participants all-over. Josh Ryan was my level 2 instructor.

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Resources

Africa -> West

 

Discussion Questions

 

1) Not all play seems to stimulate empathy, imagination, compassion, and creativity. Screentime for example, seems to have negative consequences in areas of connection and as related to the cultivation of the Default Mode within Neurobiology. What makes storybook reading and music a special kind of play?

2) How do we cultivate a sense of wonder and discovery in our teaching and musicking?

3) How might we adopt a spirit of playfulness in resolving and transforming conflicts?

4) What seems to be the interrelationship between joy, voice, and imagination?

Transcript

Ryan
people want to feel something, and they're gonna go wherever they can go to get it, to feel something. They want to feel something visceral. And when they can't understand what is happening, they may turn to stories like this to have their visceral nous mitigated.  
Shorner-Johnson
You are listening to the Music and Peacebuilding Podcast, a professional development network at music peacebuilding dot com. Exploring intersections of peacebuilding, sacredness, community creativity and imagination through research and story. Josh Ryan is department chair and professor of percussion that Baldwin Wallace University, where he teaches percussion. Ryan has studied Afro-centric music, making within Ghanian, Cuban and other West African and Caribbean traditions. He is the co founder of the Africa West Percussion Trio, a professional percussion ensemble that has released its fourth CD Loud Fossil, as well as a recording with the world-renowned percussionist and singer Valerie Naranjo in 2017. Josh is also a well-known clinician within the world, music drumming workshops across the country, known for the depth of his knowledge, his musicianship and the approachableness of his presence. He is well loved by world music drumming participants all over. Josh Ryan was my level two instructor. I recorded this interview in the midst of a heavy thunderstorm toward the end of our World Music drumming workshop this past summer at Elizabethtown College. Registration for Summer World Music drumming workshops is now open at world music drumming dot com. At Elizabethtown College we are excited to host workshops again this coming summer, as well as the launch of our new Masters program and musical peacebuilding that is tightly integrated with world music drumming pedagogy. Our website is etown dot edu slash music masters.  
Shorner-Johnson
Our conversation today is an exploration of the music of Africa West, the importance of musical embodiment and a rebalancing toward traditions that are centered in listening and embodiment as we all experience growing stress and anxieties in Children, I can't help but wonder if a path towards centering connection and care is a path toward becoming more fully embodied, where we might move out of the anxieties of our heads and into the fully embody therapeutic experience of weight, feel and sound.  
Shorner-Johnson
Classically trained percussionist seem to fall in love with a different way of doing music, and then how that seemed to connect with World Music Drumming. Oh, Well, I have. I am and have been a Western percussionist, which in itself, that what is that term even mean? I mean, that could mean so many things. But, you know, I went to music school like I like a lot of people do and was playing snare drum and marimba and timpani and orchestral excerpts and a little bit of drum set at that time. And playing contemporary, uh, sort of eclectic music, you newly composed music and symphonic music, things like that. And then, um, I was fortunate enough to go to a place where my percussion teacher, a very important mentor of mine, Dane Richardson, on one of his sabbaticals when I was a student there, went to Ghana in 1993. And when he came back, the music that he brought back with him was amazing. And at that point, I would have always considered my strong points as a musician to be, well, melodic percussion. I wasn't necessarily as much of a drummer as I should have been. I was more of, ah, melodic percussion player, symphonic percussion player, and my abilities were a little bit more in the melodic and reading realm. rather than the groove and feeling realm. I mean, there were a lot more in that realm, and he came back with this music where there, which he would set up these ostinato patterns and then play these lead drum parts. And it seemed impossible that they could have anything to do with each other, that they would unify for a moment, seemingly drift apart into chaos and then (snaps fingers) bang unify again. And I distinctly remember where I was sitting when I first heard him play one of the drum proverbs when I first heard Dane Richardson play one of the drum proverbs and I thought, I gotta learn that. Then, as you start to study that a friend of mine had brought me a video of a group called Talking Drums, which featured my teacher and mentor and guide, uh, Michael Spiro and I watched that hundreds of times. I mean, hundreds of times. And then I started a group based on that with my brother, Jamie Ryan and Ryan Korb. And then you realize its connection to Africa. Afro-Cuban music, Afro-Brazilian music, African-American music, popular music. It's about controlling time, tension and timbre in the same way that classical music has so well developed a control of frequency  and pitch.  

Ryan
Where I stayed in Ghana, there were master musicians, but there's no music teacher. There's no separate music,  salaried music teacher or music major. Yet everyone is completely fluent at stuff that for me, as a person with the master's degree in percussion I really struggled with, and it's part of their social fabric that they grow up with. And, um, we have. This will never happen. But at some sense If music teachers in the West are successful as they need to be, that won't be necessary. Now I'm not worried for a minute that that's gonna happen. But when you see music as it occurs in a town or a village setting and the grandparents partake in the same dense, complex, virtuosic music as the kids and music study isn't delayed until, let's say the fifth grade. You know you don't decide to become an instrumentalist in the fifth grade when you have, if you're lucky, you have general music, and then you can choose to be an instrumentalist - join band, or choir or orchestra or something like that, and you might have to pass some diagnostic ..diagnostic tests? No, You're participating in the repertoire from birth. Uh, that's a shocking model that I just really like, You know, now you're not playing the master drum parts from birth, but you're tapping your foot to it. You're moving your dance to it, dancing to it. One of your parents is holding you and they're dancing to it. And then eventually you start to pick up some of the instruments, and it just happens.

Shorner-Johnson
So To Dive into that kind of music education, I think two days ago, I heard you refer, to it as the inefficient way of learning music versus the efficient way of learning music?  

Ryan
Yeah, as we're here as we're here working with a group of music teachers, I was joking to them. And I'm also trying to disarm any sense of frustration because I'm teaching to them, teaching it to them by ear First later, at the end of the week, they get a handout.  But I'm trying to work with them to Learn sound by sound. Because as western trained musicians, this works for us. But we're part of a very strange minority on this planet who do sounds by sight. It works for what it works for after you've had all of this training to interpret what the symbols mean, you know, because the symbols can mean very different things in Bach versus Mozart vs Richard Strauss, you know, versus Brahms. They wouldn't mean very different things. Then we should, of course, expect that the symbols that we use the notations symbols might not mean anything or might not demonstrate anything heuristic or what is valuable if we try to notate West African music, so why not try the way that the rest of the world does it? Which is, Let's learn sound as sound because a, That's the tradition and B for a lot of these music teachers, that's really their students are gonna have to learn. And so I joke with him that that's inefficient because it's gonna frustrate them a little bit at first, it's gonna frustrate them a little. They they're all patient, Um, but for some of the rhythms, there might be a faster way to get them the information. But that's getting them that information cognitively, not physically or intuitively. Getting that information is a counted entity in their head and not felt in their body. They need to play both. And in that sense, studying non Western music, studying Afrocentric music makes you a better Western musician. It makes you better at symphonic music. It makes you better at contemporary music. It makes you better at jazz and rock and roll music because you have cross-trained your ear
Ryan
I think therefore I am said Descartes. Our Western heritage emphasizes a strict separation between thinking and embodied action. In our classrooms, we construct rows of stationary desks because we often believe we can educate the mind without engaging the body. I asked Josh about the re balancing that Afro centric traditions bring to Eurocentric mind Body dualism. Is the lack of engagement with our bodies a form of poverty?  What is the role ofdance as integrated music education?  
Ryan
Every culture, no matter how big or how small it is, is how hegemonic it is is weird in some way. You know, um, but we're a society which has musicians that don't dance. I'm one of them. I'm one of that's really bizarre. That's really bizarre. I went to Ghana the first time with the straightest physicality of how to... I didn't know how to move my body. No one ever showed me how to dance to anything because there wasn't any, you just, some people just sort of made stuff up if they were physically comfortable with themselves. In my grandparent's generation, there were still swing and maybe square dances that they could go to where there were moves to be copied. But as we all are got moved out to suburbs and music came in through the radio and TV, and it wasn't experienced as a group. There was no group movement anymore, so it really was really kind of liberating to be shown some movements. Here's what you do. And I do always say this in my classes. I distinctly remember my first middle school Junior high dance. We were all well fed kids. I'm sure they were probably some that weren't but we were fed, vaccinated, sheltered from the cold or extreme heat in our school, you know, the whole thing, but they turned on some, I won't. I'll protect the innocent, but some really bad music. And they left us in the gym and nobody knew what to do. Okay? It took me like, 20 or 30 years later to realize that it's a form either at minimum, it's sad. Maybe it's a form of poverty? For me it was because I was so uncomfortable in this situation. I just stopped going. I just stopped partaking into it. And the dance that I've experienced with people or I've seen people do in the in the parts it mediates gender relationships. It mediates personal space. It helps you physically do something like exercise. Even, UM, it helps mediate touch. When there's a part of the dance where you're supposed to touch a partner and you're supposed to, you're you're not, too. It mixes people, which wouldn't normally be mixed. It prevents cliqueness. It's it's remarkable, but my generation, you know, that's the breakfast club generation. You put all those people and in the gym, and you can imagine how it all separates out. And no one knows how to do anything. But everything has its opportunity cost. Do you make sure you include that. I'm not criticizing our society. I mean, everything has its opportunity costs. Over there those kids with their social cohesion, they still have had some opportunity cost from growing up in rural, rural Ghana or or slightly urban Cuba with dance that I that I've seen, I think one of things. I worry about as a parent, that both my wife and I worry about this like screen time. Yeah, because our fear is that our Children will just move more and more  into their heads, as their fun with these things, and we will leave our bodies behind. Yeah, I can't agree with you more about the again being fully embodied. And screen time is also increasingly the way we get our aesthetic rather than a group social negotiation aesthetic. It's extremism is going to find its niche when you can separate and download. It's going to when you have a group of people out there dancing, sharing a common repertoire, you'll have a shared sense of of aesthetic values and not saying we have to have a shared set of aesthetic values, but it's helpful to have sort of a Venn diagram of a center. You know, right now we... I don't know if we have that or not. I'm not an expert on those things, but ah.. but the original question about how world music drumming, you know, the program here is that you can't just experience music in your head either. You have to everything you play has to be physical and moved and felt. And you if you never play another note of non Western music again. It will make you better at classical music making. But, I mean, we teach baroque music in music schools, which is a lot of is based on dance music and nobody dances,  
Shorner-Johnson
which has a strong heritage in the Caribbean.  
Ryan
Yeah, you're about Yeah, right, Right.  
Ryan
Its ugly head. This is a peace that we all worked on. But my brother Jamie worked especially really hard on it. And it takes the folkloric tale between two of the Afro Cuban Orishas Ogoun and Ochoun the blacksmith swordsman and the River Goddess and beauty and how they mutually attract and repulse one another. Um, and it's part of a three movement piece. Um, it's the second movement, and it depicts struggle between these two entities and it depicts loss and struggle. It starts there with I hate to spoil the surprise, but it starts there with those gong scrapes and everything because I wanted it. You know how how people early people used to project their own beliefs onto the cosmos. The stars and they would see a particular set of stars and say, Oh, that looks like a hunter that looks like a somebody who's jumping or running. Or that looks like a bull who's jumping over something. So I kind of wanted to have those sounds as the metal vibrating with the background vibrating of the world,
Ryan
[music]
Ryan
Into it come these two dueling figures Ogoun and Ochoun And they duel, represented by different instruments. Different time feels, and it gets so intense at the end that we have Ogoun's metal instruments going for eight clubs, eight cycles and then Ochoun's gourd instruments going for eight claves.
Ryan
And then it sort of goes in a swirl downwards. Six metals, the six gourds, four metals, then four gourds and then two metals and two gourds. And then it just kind of bottoms out after that because no one ever wins the debate. And these two energies have to learn how to coexist
Shorner-Johnson
the stories don't have a need to resolve tension and get rid of tension, right? Right. It's I think one of the most important thing in peacebuilding is the ability that once you have the ability to live with paradox then peace can exist, yes, kind of hold those tensions  
Ryan
and one place where, one cool thing about music in general. But this kind of music is that there is an intensity and a momentary release from it, and then the intensity occurs again. People want to feel something, and they're gonna go wherever they can go to get it, to feel something. They want to feel something visceral and when they can't understand what is happening, they may turn to stories like this to have their visceralness um mitigated.  
Shorner-Johnson
Josh emphasized that the heritage of African culture lives and breathes in every corner of what we think of as American music. He says that the tensions within musical time, a pulse with a moment of crisis that moves to resolution are the architectural heart of our experience of rhythm within jazz, dance, hip hop, pop and other forms of music. Starting from an exploration of West African diasporas, we spoke of Ryan's instruction of a music theory of Ghanian music as he teaches world music drumming workshops way often do music theory as a way of catching ourselves up to understand what in other time periods might be intuitively understood about music As we approach music through world music drumming, I believe we are called to become fully embodied. And, as we do, such to use our mental capacity for theory to develop a sense of awe, of cathedrals of rhythmic sound within Afro centric music.  
Ryan
But it's actually just a breakdown of what people can live every day if they grow up around music and there are places where people do that, I'm not from one of them. But, yeah, it's possible with African music to have a theory course, certainly to have an ear training course, which would have to focus on rhythm as much as pitch, if not more, to have all the history sequence to talk about orchestration, you would have to have an orchestration to have part writing. All of those things apply to the drums. It just hasn't been that part. That world hasn't been catalogued and analyzed and colonized in that way because it hasn't needed to be, doesn't doesn't need to be, hasn't been institutionalized. It would only need to be if we were to start a music school solely based around Afrocentric music, which I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon. Um, so one of the tasks you face as a non Western music teacher is, you have to teach the theory and the history and the ear training and the technique all at the same time.  
Shorner-Johnson
I think what I like about how you present your theory is you presented in a way that music theory is not something to constrain music with. Yeah, but it's something to move into a sense of awe and appreciation. Oh yeah, for what's happening? Like, Yeah, if I hear the 3 -2 clave part, Yeah, understanding that as an idea of call and repsonse balance instills in me a little bit of awe about,  
Ryan
yes, the architecture of the mind. Yes, and how human beings are set up regardless of their socioeconomic status. Totally, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. What we get a chance to see with the world's musics is the same hardware device, meaning the human brain loaded up with different software and how it behaves. And that is totally cool. But a lot of musicians and music students get caught up understandably so, in the syntax of the software, because they're trying to download it, which we do in music school at dial up speed at 1990s dial up speed because we've missed the missed the chance to absorb it when we were infants, and I since you asked the first question, you asked, Why did I get interested in this as an adolescent percussionist - The thing I was worst at by far was rhythm and groove. And that is the thing this music Afrocentric requires most. And here were people excelling at it and I was having real trouble. So its process of playing it was almost kind of, ah, therapy, like working, working at it, one part at a time, one layer at a time. And it was good for me that way.  
Shorner-Johnson
That was very similar to what the musicians from the Silk Road ensemble said when they came to Etown that for many of them, they were classically trained percussionists. Yeah, and they would do. their work in the practice room and then they would go out and do their therapy. Yeah, which was what they do in their day job now which is encountering these other traditions, fascinating.  
Ryan
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was always really good with reading rhythm and hearing and doing melodic things, but my sense of feeling and groove at age 19 or 20 horrible, horrible, horrible, such that if you had put me next to a six year old kid. I mean, a five or six year old kid in the village where I studied in Ghana. I would have flunked. They would have identified. Had had they had the educational structure. I would have been identified as either not able to participate in the music program or some sort of remedial music program. And you know what the cool thing was is I had the money to pay him to teach me, and they did. I was suffering from or recovering from the mind body dichotomy. You do music with the mind and maybe the ear, but not ever anything else. It doesn't work that way. It was never supposed to work that way anyway, it just somehow, with, it just go....I don't know how it happened that way it just just happened,
Shorner-Johnson
[music]
Ryan
Eshu La Roye refers to the orisha or saint Elegua the person who, the concept that governs the crossroads, the messenger deity in Afro Cuban belief, a saint that is often sung for at the beginning of a concert or the beginning of ah, a religious event and that particular track that is an arrangement of Afro of an Afro Cuban beat with sort of an Afrocentric, Afro Cuban piece a set of songs with sort of an Afrocentric take on it. My brother did a lot of their - Jamie Ryan did a lot of the arranging of it, and myself and our other brother, Ryan Korb, play on it. Those are the three members of our trio, and we took what would be traditional songs for Elegua and found different traditional ways of saying hello in the drum languages for that, and also Elegua was associated with Number three. There are lots of, if you listen to it very carefully. There are lots of things that happened three times. There are lots of occurrences of three-note gestures. There's lots of permutations of the number three in that piece, and what we try to do in our pieces is have some. So we want our pieces to be interesting on two levels. We want people to be able to to, you know, turn it on and listen to it, and that was cool and I tap my foot and I hit that one hit with them and I sang this thing. But also we want people to be able to examine it many times and find meaning.  
Ryan
[music]  
Shorner-Johnson
I saw the presence of Legba in that sacred ceremony. Yeah, And there we were working out relationshipin that ceremony, we were working out issues of time together and sacredness. There's something  
Ryan
one of the things that one of the things that one of the concepts that to me is important about Elegua is, you know, we're all and again I used this daily. I'm not criticizing it. I just have to be able to be able to check myself. We're all logging on instantly. We're pulling up to the drive through we're all getting on the onramp and hitting the pedal to the metal. Getting up to 65. Important stories and important, important lessons have an introduction. You have to have a sense of "we're coming together at these crossroads to open up this story." You just don't start blabbing at something. You just don't start shooting your mouth off. You have to say, OK, we have to. We have to first engage in energy that indicates beginning and a lot of in my opinion, a lot Elegua's rhythms and songs do that. And there are songs for the other saints, the other Orishas which clearly depict their character - swordfighting hunting, cured, being cured from disease, the violent sea, and then the calm sea. It's, um, there are different energies to be had. Whereas, um, you know,  and I really like that because there isn't. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but, you know, we've all attended things like the beginning of the year and this is any school. This is any school the beginning of the year conference. "Okay, everybody take your seats now. We're going to start with an introduce. You know, let me first introduce our university provost who will introduce the president. No, no, you need a drawn out call to focus. That's what that's for. There is a organic human way to do that.  
Shorner-Johnson
We have a human need to wrap things in Stories. And that's how we make meaning in the world.  
Ryan
Yeah, yeah. And no offense, but powerpoint can't do that. Powerpoint, It can be used afterwards, but to draw our fellow mammals into the herd as they've been, you know, socializing and having coffee and donuts in the lounge. You need something that focuses people's energy. And that's what this is for because on that CD Abure is about to come a story and the Eshu la Roye focuses everybody on on. It gets everyone dialed into these rhythmic and elements. And okay, you're about to get a story, but you can't just jump into it, you know? But we don't know. We almost don't have time for that anymore. We don't have time for a lengthy introduction. I regret it.  
Shorner-Johnson
So if we move to peacebuilding... l I I've been really fascinating about how you've seen how we having me balance a collective we versus the I that gives me agency, creativity, and voice. And I think that there's something special in West African traditions that speaks to this. And I'd love to talk about, you know, maybe first we talk about Ghanian percussion. I've heard it described as this...that beauty is in the juxtaposition of contrasting elements. Yeah, placed side by side. Yeah, And that this collective layering sound. Can you talk about how you understand the playing of community within this tradition? Thes traditions of music making?  
Ryan
Well, you know, you have these different You have. You have a timeline. You have a repetitive ostinato. Oh, and it requires. It acquires different meanings based on the parts that are put over it rather than acquiring its meaning from an objective linear measurement, which again is not bad. It works for what it's works for. It works very well for that. But if a particular part is grouped a certain way, according to the accent of another part that's played with it, it feels differently. Uh, I think you said you're gonna play some clips later that might demonstrate it this, But if I have this rhythm here [demos rhythm], the temptation is to feel the beat here. But if I have [demoing rhythm] an illusion is created of two meters happening at once, and there's that balanced tension. That is one of the things I like about that music. Those tension moments are, Yeah, I think they're just really cool. But I don't want to put African music on a pedestal. I also think there's moments for community in a viola section. Of course, there are, and there's moments for community in a in a chorus rehearsal. But in this case, what the output is different, and then it is. It is time and rhythm itself. There's not an objective beat person, a conductor at the top, telling you where to come in. The work is done with your ear. You have to find your way in with your ear rather than with your eye, which I think it's important.  
Shorner-Johnson
And then that may go back to the conversation about how learning this music makes you a better classically trained musician because.... totally instead of just simply listening to a hierarchy of Dr Beat. Yes, I have to listen to the conversation that is taking place parts. Perhaps it That's exactly it. Yeah, precisely. And it's a different way of living into sound.  
Ryan
Yes, yes, yes, precisely. And the 19th and 18th century, way of, perceiving time and taking it from a visual cue has taken over a little bit in genres in which it doesn't belong. We know that with medieval and Renaissance music, that way of perceiving time didn't belong there. In Baroque music, you have the influence of.. of dance music in many places and in modern music. What does that word mean? But in mid to late 20th century music and 21st century music, that sort of objective beat structure. One wonders whether it has a place whether the ear might be a better tool to create that musical community with then the i, um, and that is especially tricky for a lot of people because we're a very visual culture. Traffic signs, messages, emails, we're a very visual people.  
Shorner-Johnson
So how does this year open up the ability to express myself if I we move to the I and voicing, You know our culture struggles a lot with improvisation. Yeah, giving voice to our own sense  
Ryan
when improv, the word improvisation. Sometimes when I use it in a workshop, it's like I've said "Go vacation in Amsterdam." Improvisation does not mean anarchy. It means structured self choice in sound. And it means you it means in the case of African music, there are moments to improvise. You must learn to speak with your part in the case of the music that I've studied around the other drum voices that are being spoken and you can speak there, but you can't step on other people. You can't musically shout over other people. You have to balance yourself. The same thing is true on the balafone instrument, the gyil that I play. You can play what you want to play within certain note permutations and certain rhythmic permutations, and you begin to study that by, uh, structured parameters. Okay, I've got this part of the timeline. What happens if I insert this note here? Okay, that worked. Let's try this note and this note. Okay, that didn't work so well because I stepped on that person's note over there and you learned to gradually assert yourself while middle measuring, measuring what you play against the group  
Ryan
[music]  
Ryan
This is the second movement of our Lobi variations, which ended up as a tribute to the Great West African musician Krakaba  Lobi that we got to meet. I'm very fortunate to be a student of Valerie Naranjo gyil Master, an amazing musician musician on the Saturday Night Live band and Broadway, and I got to meet her teacher. But about around the same time, some other musical events were happening and my grand parents were in their final days and final years. So it's kind of a tribute to the passing of an aesthetic and realization that a way of being is passing and it's gonna be It's a real question whether we're going to get it back. And I think the word we used in the liner notes is that there's about that movement. There's funky mournfulness. And again, I would hope you can listen to it and just enjoy the sounds. But on another level, it starts with a bata rhythm called Vo Doo Doo Wah, well, Vo Doo Doo Wah is played and associated with the dead. You know, funerals, things, spirits that have passed. And our grand parents, my brother and I, Jamie had a had a farm off of Mo Road. So it's meant the piece is meant to be kind of a nostalgic look back at things and further permutation of the theme that permutates that goes through the piece. That piece Lobi Variations. I also wanted to prove to people that you can have a I wanted to have African music with sort of a Westernized harmonic vocabulary in addition to its own harmonic vocabulary, and I wanted to put it in the fast, slow minuet fast format. I wanted to use it, and that's what that for movement piece does. We tried it, you know, People decide for yourselves if it works, but it's a tribute to peace to Krokaba Lobi our grand parents our teachers and the regrettable change that happens.
Shorner-Johnson
special thanks to Jamie Ryan, Ryan Korb and Josh Ryan for permission to use the recordings in this podcast. Their group can be found at Africa West trio dot com, and the recordings can be purchased on CD Baby or iTunes. This conversation captures many of the gifts I have experienced through world music drumming, that this approach opens up my love of approaching music as sound before symbol, where I might hear rhythms as interlocking conversations of sound. Simultaneously, I experience new forms of relationship with participants through a week of collective interlocking musicianship. We encourage you to consider attending a workshop with Josh Ryan or any one of the other fantastic instructors. At Elizabethtown College. We're proud to host World music drumming workshops, as well as a master's program that is rooted within world music Drumming and peacebuilding. We are now accepting applications at e town dot edu slash music Masters.  
Shorner-Johnson
I will be taking a break from podcasting over the holidays, and I wish you a wonderful holiday season. When we return. Our next episodes will explore a Zimbabwean peacebuilding and music-making, with Oliver Mtukudzi, Dan, Shevock and Ecological Care through music, an AnaBaptist heritage of Peacebuilding, South Indian classical dance and the Hindu peacebuilding ethic of ahimsa, an interview with the U. S. Executive director of Peace Direct and much more. I hope you are enjoying listening as much as I am having fun in interviewing and editing episodes. Have a restful, restorative and happy holiday season.  
Shorner-Johnson
This is the Music and Peace building podcast hosted by Kevin Shorner-Johnson at Elizabethtown College. We host a master of music education with an emphasis in peacebuilding, thinking deeply way reclaim space for connection and care. Join us at music peacebuilding dot com.

 
 

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Dr. Kevin Shorner-Johnson

Music & Peacebuilding

Elizabethtown College

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